Trump Tariff Madness! w/ Ben Hunt & Jonah Van Bourg

Watch on YouTube ↗  |  April 11, 2025 at 16:08  |  1:11:56  |  Steady Lads Podcast
Speakers
Jordi Alexander — Founder & CEO, Selini Capital
Ben Hunt — Author, Epsilon Theory
Jonah Van Bourg — Head of Trading, Cumberland / ex-Vitol
Justin Bram — Reporter, The Block

Summary

The episode examines the market fallout from Trump's tariff shock through two guests. Ben Hunt argues the shift from Pax Americana to America First weakens dollar reserve dominance, reprices Treasuries, and makes gold and Bitcoin useful insurance. Jonah Van Bourg takes a trader's view, arguing the post-GFC buy-the-dip regime persists, favoring Bitcoin, HYPE, and S&P exposure while avoiding Ethereum and most altcoins. The hosts debate whether dollar debasement makes Bitcoin the fastest horse and whether US stocks remain politically protected.

  • Tariff volatility dominated the week, with sharp moves in the dollar, Treasuries, gold, Bitcoin, and equities.
  • Ben Hunt said America First bilateralism threatens dollar reserve dominance and makes Treasuries less risk-free.
  • Ben Hunt favored gold as insurance and saw a developing Bitcoin insurance narrative.
  • Jordi Alexander called Bitcoin the fastest horse on dollar debasement and expected gold to keep rising.
  • Jonah Van Bourg remained directionally long, buying dips in S&P 500 and Bitcoin under the post-GFC stimulus regime.
  • Jonah favored HYPE as tokenized equity and was bearish most altcoins and Ethereum.
  • Justin Bram was bearish ETH in the current regime, and Jordi expected US stocks to do fine because stocks win votes.
Ideas
Jordi Alexander Founder & CEO, Selini Capital 2:37
Bitcoin is fastest horse on dollar debasement.
Bitcoin is the fastest horse over the next six months because the dollar is being trashed and there is active global diversification out of US dollars; gold is huge, so even a small reallocation into Bitcoin could produce reflexive, powerful upside.
Ben Hunt Author, Epsilon Theory 14:05
Dollar dominance declines as reserve status weakens.
The Trump administration's shift from Pax Americana to America First replaces multilateral rule setting with bilateral negotiations; the dollar doesn't collapse but reserve-currency dominance declines as the dollar becomes a choice, making the US just another powerful country.
Ben Hunt Author, Epsilon Theory 19:27
Treasuries lose risk-free status; bear steepener.
US Treasuries are being repriced as not truly risk-free because the US is just another country; lenders will demand more term premium, producing a bear steepener with rates rising especially at the long end.
Ben Hunt Author, Epsilon Theory 20:46
Buy gold, Bitcoin as policy insurance.
Gold is doing well because its role is insurance against central bank and government policy error, and Bitcoin has a similar credible insurance narrative; with many bilateral negotiations raising the chance of mistakes, he wants to buy as much insurance as possible.
Ben Hunt Author, Epsilon Theory 20:46
Buy gold, Bitcoin as policy insurance.
Gold is doing well because its role is insurance against central bank and government policy error, and Bitcoin has a similar credible insurance narrative; with many bilateral negotiations raising the chance of mistakes, he wants to buy as much insurance as possible.
Jordi Alexander Founder & CEO, Selini Capital 31:57
Gold keeps rising on Treasury diversification.
Gold should keep grinding higher as investors buy gold and diversify away from Treasuries.
Jordi Alexander Founder & CEO, Selini Capital 32:48
Bitcoin dominance rises over weak altcoins.
Bitcoin dominance should keep rising because the rest of crypto still lacks use cases beyond gambling/payments and many altcoins face inflation and large unlocks; ETH looks especially rough.
Jonah Van Bourg Head of Trading, Cumberland / ex-Vitol 42:31
Bitcoin wins as non-sovereign multipolar money.
Bitcoin is decentralized, math-based, non-sovereign money that can perforate trade barriers in a multipolar world; it showed relative strength versus equities during the tariff shock and could attract flows if it proves to be a hedge.
Jonah Van Bourg Head of Trading, Cumberland / ex-Vitol 45:17
Buy S&P dips; stimulus regime persists.
The post-GFC regime where central banks underwrite private-sector risk remains intact; politicians lack the mandate to let the economy take the full medicine, so he stays directionally long, buys dips, and rides momentum rallies in the S&P 500 plus select single names.
Jonah Van Bourg Head of Trading, Cumberland / ex-Vitol 46:23
Ethereum misses rebound; institutions prefer Bitcoin.
Ethereum will not participate in the crypto rebound because institutions are now Bitcoin maximalists and the last decade taught investors to stay away from altcoins.
Jonah Van Bourg Head of Trading, Cumberland / ex-Vitol 51:52
Dollar debases to zero; avoid USD.
The dollar is on a one-way train to zero since Nixon ended the gold standard; all fiat currencies debase, so he does not believe in the dollar and prefers Bitcoin and productive risk assets.
Jonah Van Bourg Head of Trading, Cumberland / ex-Vitol 53:53
Hyperliquid buybacks make HYPE tokenized equity.
Hyperliquid is tokenized equity in a real business; 97% of fee income goes to HYPE buybacks, it generates ten-figure revenue, has on-chain proof of reserves, and offers public exposure to a crypto exchange business unlike private Binance/Bybit/OKX; he bought HYPE around $12.
Jonah Van Bourg Head of Trading, Cumberland / ex-Vitol 54:00
Short altcoins; most memecoins go zero.
Most altcoins are memecoins with no equity claim on the underlying project and many face inflation or unlocks; memecoins are dead and most tokens head to zero, so shorting altcoins has been the easy trade, while only cash-flow assets like HYPE are exceptions.
Justin Bram Reporter, The Block 62:37
ETH likely crushed in this regime.
He is stuck with some ETH because it is hard to sell down here, but he thinks ETH gets absolutely crushed in this regime.
Jordi Alexander Founder & CEO, Selini Capital 66:16
Stocks win votes; US stocks fine.
US stocks will do fine because the political system is designed so stocks win votes, especially with 401k exposure; the Trump administration miscalculated how much people care, but stocks should still perform, just perhaps less sharply than recent years, while faster horses may exist.
Up Next

This Steady Lads Podcast video, published April 11, 2025, features Jordi Alexander, Ben Hunt, Jonah Van Bourg, Justin Bram discussing BTC, USD, TLT, GLD, ALTCOINS, SPY, ETH, HYPE, MEMECOINS. 15 trade ideas extracted by AI with direction and confidence scoring.

Speakers: Jordi Alexander, Ben Hunt, Jonah Van Bourg, Justin Bram  · Tickers: BTC, USD, TLT, GLD, ALTCOINS, SPY, ETH, HYPE, MEMECOINS