White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue

Watch on YouTube ↗  |  March 22, 2025 at 02:55  |  1:30:43  |  All-In Podcast
Speakers
David Friedberg — CEO, The Production Board
Chamath Palihapitiya — CEO, Social Capital
Cyan Banister — Investor, Long Journey Ventures
Jason Calacanis — Angel Investor / Founder, LAUNCH
David Sacks — General Partner, Craft Ventures

Summary

The All-In hosts recap a three-day trip to the White House with David Sacks, including interviews with Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent and Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick, and argue that M&A is being unleashed under the new administration. They then dissect Google's $32B cash acquisition of cloud security company Wiz, debating the price, the $3.2B breakup fee, Google's ROIC hurdle and the multicloud strategic logic, with guest Cyan Banister framing security as an underinvested category. The macro block covers the Fed holding rates, Treasury's short-end issuance problem, the 10-year yield as the signal to watch, Bessent's push to loosen community bank lending, and a squeezed consumer facing higher import prices. It closes with SpaceX's rescue of two stranded astronauts, the end of Boeing's Starliner program, and China's Starship-like Long March 9 and manufacturing advantage.

  • Besties recap a White House visit and their interviews with Bessent and Lutnick.
  • Google agrees to buy cloud security startup Wiz for $32B in cash, its largest deal ever.
  • Panel debates the roughly 60x trailing and 30x forward ARR price, the $3.2B breakup fee and Google's ROIC hurdle.
  • Chamath frames Wiz as a Trojan horse into rival clouds; Friedberg sees the financial math as hard.
  • Cyan Banister announces a $181M fourth fund and calls security an underinvested category.
  • Fed holds rates a second time; panel discusses Powell, short-end Treasury issuance and slower cuts.
  • Bessent's plan to loosen community bank lending standards is framed as a workaround to the Fed.
  • SpaceX returns two stranded astronauts as Boeing's Starliner ends, while China's Long March 9 mirrors Starship.
Ideas
David Friedberg CEO, The Production Board 50:20
Wiz price hard to justify on ROIC
Google is a distant third in cloud at roughly $40B of annual revenue versus about $100B each for AWS and Azure, so Wiz is meant to be an enterprise beachhead it can cross-sell GCP services into, the same land-and-expand playbook that made Oracle, Salesforce and Microsoft acquisitive. The problem is the math: Google's return on invested capital is about 30%, so a $32B purchase that sits on the balance sheet mostly as goodwill implies roughly $10B a year of incremental profit, which is very hard to get to against $40B of cloud revenue and only about $1B of Wiz ARR. That makes the deal look as much defensive as financially accretive, at least for a long time.
Chamath Palihapitiya CEO, Social Capital 52:46
Wiz is Google's multicloud Trojan horse
Wiz exists because enterprises run multicloud, so most of its revenue comes from workloads sitting on AWS, Azure and Oracle rather than on GCP. That makes it the one service a cloud provider can own whose revenue comes mainly from rival clouds, giving Google tentacles into competitors' environments and visibility into where workloads actually run, which Thomas Kurian can then use to pull those workloads back to GCP. Wiz was also roughly doubling in months, and when the rate of change of the rate of change is that extreme, almost any discounted model gets you to this price, so the strategic rationale is clever rather than reckless.
Cyan Banister Investor, Long Journey Ventures 56:39
Cybersecurity is underinvested as AI threats grow
Security has been a contrarian, underinvested category: relatively little money was going into it when Wiz was first funded and that is still true. Meanwhile AI, vibe coding and the range of things attackers can now build are expanding the attack surface, so demand for better security will keep rising. The $32B Wiz exit, the largest ever in the space, should finally make security a category investors treat as genuinely investable.
David Friedberg CEO, The Production Board 66:13
Bond market signals recession and cuts
The Fed has no historical template for a federal government cutting a trillion dollars of spending in 100 days at the same time as the biggest tariff change in a century, and Lutnick even argues GDP is mismeasured, so the Fed is stuck in wait-and-see mode. The more informative signal is the bond market: the 10-year yielded about 3.65% right before the election, 4.5% a month ago and 4.22% today, so roughly 30 basis points of decline in a month says the bond market expects a deflationary and recessionary outcome and is giving the Fed an opening to cut. The incoming data over the administration's first 100 days is what will settle it.
Cyan Banister Investor, Long Journey Ventures 68:44
Costlier imports squeeze US retail spending
The US consumer has been living on cheap imported supply and that is ending. Shein and Temu prices are up roughly 27%, a garment that used to cost $18 now costs $37 and the Zara equivalent is $75, so the dollar visibly stops going as far. With consumer confidence weak, urban blight in retail, malls that cannot be filled and chains like Forever 21 shutting down, discretionary retail spending gets squeezed exactly when people most want small purchases to feel better, which is a bad setup for the retail and consumer landscape.
Chamath Palihapitiya CEO, Social Capital 71:34
Bessent will loosen community bank lending
If the Fed refuses to play ball, the workaround runs through Treasury. Bessent wants to deregulate and loosen bank lending standards specifically at the community level, because the long end of the curve is where the big institutions make large capital plays, while two-month to two-year credit is what actually gets small businesses off the ground and lets communities thrive. Loosening credit through smaller banks is therefore how the administration can keep money available and fight off a recession even while the Fed stays slow, which also relegates the Fed to a less relevant institution.
David Friedberg CEO, The Production Board 73:38
Boeing lost human spaceflight to SpaceX
Boeing spent far more on the Starliner program than was spent on Crew Dragon, and after the two astronauts it stranded had to be brought home by SpaceX nine months later, the Starliner program is effectively gone. Crew Dragon has now flown 16 crewed missions, 11 for NASA and four private commercial flights, and keeps performing. Boeing has therefore lost the human spaceflight franchise to a cheaper and more reliable competitor, with the reputational damage of a rescue it could not perform.
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