Is It Time to Rotate Out of Crypto?
Speakers
Jonah Van Bourg
— Head of Trading, Cumberland / ex-Vitol
Avi Felman
— Principal, GoldenTree Asset Management
Summary
The hosts debate the Aerodrome vs ENA trade, the fading impact of DATs, and their current positioning. Avi Felman is rotating out of crypto into commodities and equities like gold, uranium, Robinhood, and Tesla, while Jonah Van Bourg remains medium-term bullish Bitcoin and avoids altcoins. They also discuss supply dynamics in commodities and the humanoid robotics theme.
- Jonah explains his long Aerodrome / avoid ENA thesis based on a large valuation and revenue gap.
- Avi argues crypto may snooze for 2-3 months while commodities and equities outperform.
- Avi details long positions in gold, silver, uranium miners (URA), copper miners, Robinhood, and Tesla.
- Jonah maintains a medium-term Bitcoin long but advises reducing altcoin exposure and concentrating in BTC.
- The hosts discuss DATs losing their punch and being front-run by traders.
- Avi highlights rare earths as a potential robotics-driven opportunity but warns of volatility.
- The conversation touches on equity research incentives and the edge of long-term retail investors.
Ideas
Long Aerodrome, avoid overvalued ENA.
Jonah proposed long Aerodrome against ENA, then decided not to short ENA due to bull market conditions and social media backlash, but remains long Aerodrome. He sees Aerodrome as a venture-style bet: around $1 billion effective valuation with potential for multiples, huge TAM, aligned token economics, buybacks, volume ratio, a model Wall Street can plug into, and the best-architected AMM DEX poised to capture new market creation like prediction markets and on-chain commodities as DeFi goes mainstream. ENA is overvalued at $11 billion FDV with only $28 million annualized revenue versus Aerodrome's $178 million, and faces a restaking hangover and institutional discomfort.
Long Aerodrome, avoid overvalued ENA.
Jonah proposed long Aerodrome against ENA, then decided not to short ENA due to bull market conditions and social media backlash, but remains long Aerodrome. He sees Aerodrome as a venture-style bet: around $1 billion effective valuation with potential for multiples, huge TAM, aligned token economics, buybacks, volume ratio, a model Wall Street can plug into, and the best-architected AMM DEX poised to capture new market creation like prediction markets and on-chain commodities as DeFi goes mainstream. ENA is overvalued at $11 billion FDV with only $28 million annualized revenue versus Aerodrome's $178 million, and faces a restaking hangover and institutional discomfort.
Favor equities, commodities over crypto.
Avi is more interested in the stock market and commodities than crypto over the next 2-3 months. He notes equities and gold are ripping while Bitcoin, Ethereum, and Solana are stagnant, suggesting crypto has run out of buyers. DATs are fading and being front-run, with decaying demand. He expects crypto to snooze or move sideways for 2-3 months, while commodities, specifically copper and uranium miners, and equities outperform.
Long uranium miners via URA.
Avi is super bullish on uranium. Geopolitically, resources are increasingly sought after as free trade breaks down and countries seek energy independence. Nuclear power is the best way to achieve that, and political sentiment is changing in countries like Canada and Germany. He recommends stockpiling uranium. He is long the Global X Uranium ETF (URA), which holds uranium miners, and expects these miners to make more money over the next five years.
Long copper miners on supply.
Avi is also bullish on copper miners over the next 2-3 months as part of a broader commodities-over-crypto view. He says you always buy the miners because of supply issues, and he is doing this with copper.
Ethereum weak, lower high printed.
Avi is cautious on Ethereum short-term. ETH printed a lower high, failed to reclaim the $5,000 level, and sold off 5%. He sees ETH as the bellwether for the alt market, and its struggle suggests the market is slowing down.
Long Bitcoin, avoid altcoins short-term.
Jonah is medium-to-long-term bullish Bitcoin. He views crypto as an episodic macro asset like commodities, currently trading on its own drummer rather than 1:1 with equities, which preserves asymmetric upside. Institutional adoption is a slow drumbeat, and a multi-trillion-dollar wealth transfer from boomers to millennials will provide steady long-term inflows. Short-term, he is cautious on altcoins: Ethereum printed a lower high, and if Bitcoin pulls back 15%, altcoins could fall much more. He advises reducing altcoin sizes and leverage and concentrating profits into BTC.
Long Bitcoin, avoid altcoins short-term.
Jonah is medium-to-long-term bullish Bitcoin. He views crypto as an episodic macro asset like commodities, currently trading on its own drummer rather than 1:1 with equities, which preserves asymmetric upside. Institutional adoption is a slow drumbeat, and a multi-trillion-dollar wealth transfer from boomers to millennials will provide steady long-term inflows. Short-term, he is cautious on altcoins: Ethereum printed a lower high, and if Bitcoin pulls back 15%, altcoins could fall much more. He advises reducing altcoin sizes and leverage and concentrating profits into BTC.
Long Tesla as robotics pure play.
Avi is long Tesla. He sees it as the only public company that gives access to the robotics revolution and the only pure play on humanoid robotics, which he thinks will be the biggest product ever. Other robotics companies are private. Tesla also has an existing car business, and he suggests buying the dip when Elon flames out in politics.
Long Robinhood on gambling growth.
Avi owns Robinhood and added more recently. He is betting on the increase of gambling culture around the world. He thinks Robinhood is doing an amazing job capturing that trend and will continue to be the winner. Revenues continue to grow, and the launch of a social feed will bring more people in for gambling.
Long gold and silver multi-year.
Avi owns gold and silver as a 5-year bet. The world is trending into a more fractured state, the dollar is down significantly, and people no longer trust US leadership. Gold is being accumulated by central banks, the biggest DAT, with Shanghai gold warehousing 7x in the last year. This trend should continue globally and bleed over to silver.
Rare earths to benefit from robotics.
Avi is looking into a rare earth and minerals ETF. He thinks rare earths might be in a moon phase because humanoid robotics will require a lot of rare earths for magnets, actuators, and electric motors. However, he notes the business is volatile, illiquid, and prone to moon-and-dump cycles.
Up Next
This 1000x Podcast video, published September 15, 2025, features Jonah Van Bourg, Avi Felman discussing ENA, AERODROME, Equities, DBC, URA, COPX, ETH, ALTCOINS, BTC, TSLA, HOOD, GLD, SILVER, REMX. 12 trade ideas extracted by AI with direction and confidence scoring.
Speakers: Jonah Van Bourg, Avi Felman · Tickers: ENA, AERODROME, Equities, DBC, URA, COPX, ETH, ALTCOINS, BTC, TSLA, HOOD, GLD, SILVER, REMX